Roe Vs Wade revamped?

Postby Iceman » Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:15 am

Those stats actually proves the point that I was trying to make. According to the stats, only 6.1% of abortions are due to health related issues. However, the Pro-Abortionist would have you think that the percentage is higher. The top 6 reasons for having an abortion all seems to fall under the category of "it is not convenient for me right now", which brings me back to my original POV. We are a selfish society that wants to be able to have "life in a box" where you can custom design your life to be however you want it to be even at the expense of a life.

Pretty shallow attitude to me.
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Postby cheese » Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:25 am

Iceman wrote:Those stats actually proves the point that I was trying to make. According to the stats, only 6.1% of abortions are due to health related issues. However, the Pro-Abortionist would have you think that the percentage is higher. The top 6 reasons for having an abortion all seems to fall under the category of "it is not convenient for me right now", which brings me back to my original POV. We are a selfish society that wants to be able to have "life in a box" where you can custom design your life to be however you want it to be even at the expense of a life.

Pretty shallow attitude to me.




You are completely right. Life in a box to sum it up. People are sooo freaking lazy these days its sick. I still don't think the goverment has the right to step in and tell me what I can put in or take out of my body and at what time. If you can get around that issue then you have turned me pro-life. You will never be able too though because the goverment will have a hand in it. If abortion had nothing to do with goverment then I would most likely be pro-life.
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Postby Invid » Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:50 am

CRaZy)-(ØR§]® wrote:who's making up statistics..i happen to be going off of personel experience from people i happen to know and have known over the years..
now who is gonna tell the truth??some lady going into a clinic telling a stranger how she  got pregnant or someone that trusts you???
i expected the failed protection excuse to be alot higher myself..where do they get the stats??from women filling out paperwork about to get an abortion..that number is high because i would expect half or more to feel guilty and lie about it..



Edit: P.S.--Yeah, I agree that Americans act really irresponsibly about most things, I don't think there's anyone here who'd disagree with that fact. But I don't think that's what the argument is about...

i think you may be missing the point of one of the major arguments that go on in every abortion discussion .. if most people were being responsible..i don't think most would be getting an abortion..


Actually your statistics provided by people you know are bias and do not represent the nation as a whole. Surveys must be conducted in a way that they are not bias, restricted to one geographical area and that they can be projected on a national basis. So to me that means your statistics don't add up and won't ever add up. I could easily go around and find a group of people and "my statistics" would be totally opposite. Surveys are worthless if they aren not conducted properly....this is what Marketing teaches you in college ;)
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Postby Invid » Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:54 am

cheese wrote:
Iceman wrote:Those stats actually proves the point that I was trying to make. According to the stats, only 6.1% of abortions are due to health related issues. However, the Pro-Abortionist would have you think that the percentage is higher. The top 6 reasons for having an abortion all seems to fall under the category of "it is not convenient for me right now", which brings me back to my original POV. We are a selfish society that wants to be able to have "life in a box" where you can custom design your life to be however you want it to be even at the expense of a life.

Pretty shallow attitude to me.




You are completely right. Life in a box to sum it up. People are sooo freaking lazy these days its sick. I still don't think the goverment has the right to step in and tell me what I can put in or take out of my body and at what time. If you can get around that issue then you have turned me pro-life. You will never be able too though because the goverment will have a hand in it. If abortion had nothing to do with goverment then I would most likely be pro-life.


Wasn't there a movie with something like this in it?....


oh yeah... DEMOLITION MAN!!!

sex it illegal, physical touching is illegal, swearing is illegal, red meat, salt. Sure it's a bit extreme but if you look at it...it only takes one step at a time to get there...

I once read a case where congress would not pass this bill with 5 laws in it because not everyone would agree with everything in it. So what this one guy did was break the laws out and got them passed one by one. Took a little bit longer but he got it done with 2/3 majority votes I do believe.
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Postby EvilOne » Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:48 pm

EvilOne wrote:#  88% of abortions occur during the first 6 to 12 weeks of pregnancy.
# 60% of abortions are performed on women who already have one or more children.
# 47% of abortions are performed on women who have already had one or more abortions.

Abortion Statistics - Decisions to Have an Abortion (U.S.)


    * 25.5% of women deciding to have an abortion want to postpone childbearing.
    * 21.3% of women cannot afford a baby.
    * 14.1% of women have a relationship issue or their partner does not want a child.
    * 12.2% of women are too young (their parents or others object to the pregnancy.)
    * 10.8% of women feel a child will disrupt their education or career.
    * 7.9% of women want no (more) children.
    * 3.3% of women have an abortion due to a risk to fetal health.
    * 2.8% of women have an abortion due to a risk to maternal health.



Of the 1.6 million abortions performed in the U.S. each year, 91 percent are performed during the first trimester (12 or fewer weeks' gestation); 9 percent are performed in the second trimester (24 or fewer weeks' gestation); and only about 100 are performed in the third trimester (more than 24 weeks' gestation), approximately .01 percent of all abortions performed.

Approximately 1.5 million U.S. women with unwanted pregnancies choose abortion each year. Most are under 25 years old and unmarried. Women who are separated from their husbands and poor women are more likely to choose abortion than other women. More than two-thirds of the women who seek abortions have jobs. Nearly one-third are in school. More than two-thirds plan to have a child in the future.



50 percent of teenage pregnancies conceived in 1987 resulted in a birth, 36 percent in an abortion, and an estimated 14 percent in miscarriage.



CDC figures for 1995 show that 20 percent of women having abortions are in their teens; 33 percent are ages 20 to 24, and 47 percent are ages 25 or older.

Eighty percent of women having abortions are single; 60 percent are white; 35 percent are black.

Eighty-two percent of the women having abortions are unmarried or separated.

just wanted to point out a few things that you guys have been using as arguments that perhaps the pro-choice people put more weight on then they should too. for example, 47% of the women having abortions are over 25, not irresponsible teenagers. also, of all the teenagers who were pregnant, apparently only 36% had abortions. that means that there are roughly 2/3 of the pregnant teenagers that went through with the pregnancy. the minority had abortions, not the majority. 82% of the women having abortions are unmarried or seperated. that means the man wasn't there. so don't act like the man is an active decision maker in most of the cases, other than his decision to leave the woman by herself with a child. about a quarter of the abortion cases were because either parents or the man didnt' want the woman to have the baby. add to that the women who can't afford a baby, that's a little under 50%. add to that the health ones and it is a definate figure of about 50% of women who choose to get an abortion for reasons out of their personal control. irresponsible? maybe not as much as you guys are saying. again, don't get mad at me, i'm just representing the other side of the argument.

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Postby CRaZy)-(ØR§]® » Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:47 pm

Invid wrote:
CRaZy)-(ØR§ wrote:®,Sep 29 2005, 05:40 AM]who's making up statistics..i happen to be going off of personel experience from people i happen to know and have known over the years..
now who is gonna tell the truth??some lady going into a clinic telling a stranger how she  got pregnant or someone that trusts you???
i expected the failed protection excuse to be alot higher myself..where do they get the stats??from women filling out paperwork about to get an abortion..that number is high because i would expect half or more to feel guilty and lie about it..



Edit: P.S.--Yeah, I agree that Americans act really irresponsibly about most things, I don't think there's anyone here who'd disagree with that fact. But I don't think that's what the argument is about...

i think you may be missing the point of one of the major arguments that go on in every abortion discussion .. if most people were being responsible..i don't think most would be getting an abortion..


Actually your statistics provided by people you know are bias and do not represent the nation as a whole. Surveys must be conducted in a way that they are not bias, restricted to one geographical area and that they can be projected on a national basis. So to me that means your statistics don't add up and won't ever add up. I could easily go around and find a group of people and "my statistics" would be totally opposite. Surveys are worthless if they aren not conducted properly....this is what Marketing teaches you in college ;)



my stats were not up there as any kinda proof..i only said that is from my experience from my years..but that wasn't even the point..i only used it as an example to show a diffrent poll question...the stats were illrelevent to my actual respones to cheeses request to make a poll..
someone said stop making up stats..the only reason i said anything about the stats is because i was questiond on how valid they were..i don't need to prove how valid they are or need to use them for anything..i was only explaining that they were not made up...for anyone to believe anything i would say they would have to trust my word on it..everyone knows stats and polls are stronger than trust and belief when dealing in a discussion on the internet..thats why they were not to be taken as the serious part of any post.. it's all my proof that is for me...it's what i have seen and what makes me take the stance that i have..i don't need to see nation wide stats that change from website to website..

it's like watching the weather on the news..i can look out my own window to tell if it's raining or not..
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Postby Slorg » Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:59 pm

The stats about the burning of abortion clinics and whatnot prove another of my theories:

All extremists are idiots.




And for the last time Cheese, I haven't called anyone getting any abortion a murderer. Either A) You've completely misread something I posted, or B) You're looking for another fight.

Either way I do NOT appreciate you being rude to me, even if I -had- said people who have abortions are murderers, that would be my opinion and you'd have no say in that whatsoever. Stop jumping on the chance to flame someone every other week. I've stood up for you in the past because I felt you were misunderstood and this is the thanks I get, a bunch of BS. From what I can see, the only one who thinks anything I've posted "sounds horrible" is you, so obviously you've misread something, which again isn't my fault.
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Postby Invid » Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:21 pm

CRaZy)-(ØR§]® wrote:my stats were not up there as any kinda proof..i only said that is from my experience from my years..but that wasn't even the point..i only used it as an example to show a diffrent poll question...the stats were illrelevent to my actual respones to cheeses request to make a poll..
someone  said stop making up stats..the only reason i said anything about the stats is because i was questiond on how valid they were..i don't need to prove how valid they are or need to use them for anything..i was only explaining that they were not made up...for anyone to believe anything i would say they would have to trust my word on it..everyone knows stats and polls are stronger than trust and belief when dealing in a discussion on the internet..thats why they were not to be taken as the serious part of any post.. it's all my proof that is for me...it's what i have seen and what makes me take the stance that i have..i don't need to see nation wide stats that change from website to website..

it's like watching the weather on the news..i can look out my own window to tell if it's raining or not..



But most of the people you hang out with on a regular basis will tend to have the same views and beliefs as you. Nobody wants to hang out with people who they always disagree with. I'm just saying that you need to look beyond the scope of your friends to really see what the majority of people think.

Sure you can look out your window and see if it's cloudy, rainy, etc. but you can't tell me the temperature. If you think you can I'll scroung up some pics of outsite during the summer and winter and see if you can pick which season it is. Weather forecasts use statistical models to "predict" the weather. By no means could I take your findings gathered by a few people you know about any subject and predict, within a certain marginal error, how the nation thinks about it. I'm not saying anything about you or your stance here, but only alerting others reading this thread to not take your personal statistics and think that is how "most" think about this debate.
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Postby Invid » Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:24 pm

Slorg wrote:All extremists are idiots.

Not true. Extremists play very important roles in controversies. Without the extremists there would be no way to find a "middle ground" to go with.

Well, on second thought, they may be idiots but they are useful idiots. :lol:
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Postby Slorg » Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:26 pm

True, in a warped kind of way.
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Postby CRaZy)-(ØR§]® » Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:42 pm

Invid wrote:
CRaZy)-(ØR§ wrote:®,Sep 29 2005, 04:47 PM]my stats were not up there as any kinda proof..i only said that is from my experience from my years..but that wasn't even the point..i only used it as an example to show a diffrent poll question...the stats were illrelevent to my actual respones to cheeses request to make a poll..
someone  said stop making up stats..the only reason i said anything about the stats is because i was questiond on how valid they were..i don't need to prove how valid they are or need to use them for anything..i was only explaining that they were not made up...for anyone to believe anything i would say they would have to trust my word on it..everyone knows stats and polls are stronger than trust and belief when dealing in a discussion on the internet..thats why they were not to be taken as the serious part of any post.. it's all my proof that is for me...it's what i have seen and what makes me take the stance that i have..i don't need to see nation wide stats that change from website to website..

it's like watching the weather on the news..i can look out my own window to tell if it's raining or not..



But most of the people you hang out with on a regular basis will tend to have the same views and beliefs as you. Nobody wants to hang out with people who they always disagree with. I'm just saying that you need to look beyond the scope of your friends to really see what the majority of people think.

Sure you can look out your window and see if it's cloudy, rainy, etc. but you can't tell me the temperature. If you think you can I'll scroung up some pics of outsite during the summer and winter and see if you can pick which season it is. Weather forecasts use statistical models to "predict" the weather. By no means could I take your findings gathered by a few people you know about any subject and predict, within a certain marginal error, how the nation thinks about it. I'm not saying anything about you or your stance here, but only alerting others reading this thread to not take your personal statistics and think that is how "most" think about this debate.



i think ya missed my point with the rain..it was meant as i can tell what the weather is in my area or in other words from what i have experienced in my life..

my findings are not from a few people i know..it's not a group of people i hang around with..it's people i have met over the years meaning alot of years..and if i hung with people that only shared my views i would be a pretty boring person..

the fact is alot of women find me easy to talk to and end up telling me thier life storys right off the bat it seems..don't ask me why but they seem to open up and talk with me about anything..
i end up with more lady friends than i do dudes to hang with.. i never fought it :lol:

either way i never intended to put up any numbers from what i have experienced to sway anyone in one way or the other..i only used them as an example that if you ask a question in a poll on a certain subject you may get a land slide in one direction..
ask a diffrent question on the same subject you would end up in the other direction..

the numbers are only valid to me because i am the only one that was there..
but when someone was acusing me of making them up..all i was doing was explaining where i got my numbers...

either way it should be cleared up by now :lol:
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Postby cheese » Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:09 pm

Slorg wrote:The stats about the burning of abortion clinics and whatnot prove another of my theories:

All extremists are idiots.




And for the last time Cheese, I haven't called anyone getting any abortion a murderer. Either A) You've completely misread something I posted, or B) You're looking for another fight.

Either way I do NOT appreciate you being rude to me, even if I -had- said people who have abortions are murderers, that would be my opinion and you'd have no say in that whatsoever. Stop jumping on the chance to flame someone every other week. I've stood up for you in the past because I felt you were misunderstood and this is the thanks I get, a bunch of BS. From what I can see, the only one who thinks anything I've posted "sounds horrible" is you, so obviously you've misread something, which again isn't my fault.



Look at your first post you are refering to abortion as killing. A killer: one who kills and a murderer are the same fucking thing. If you want to argue symantics I guess we can nit pick.

Being rude to you? I have just said how I thought it was sick that you would associate abortion and murder or killing the same thing. Wait because you have stuck up for me in the past I have to agree with your stance on abortion? Ummm no.

Evil one and me both disliked your post too by the way. So obviously I didn't misread something its in your first post.
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Postby Slorg » Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:20 pm

All further Cheese correspondence will be kept to MSN Messenger or PM's for the sake of the community.

Sorry this has gone on even this long.


EDIT: I've added Cheese to the Ignore List and I implore him to do the same. Problem solved. If you have anything to say to me you know my MSN name.
Last edited by Slorg on Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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