How inhuman can Iran truly be?

Postby Enigma » Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:30 am

By Terry Jones
The Guardian
Saturday March 31, 2007
Last updated: 03 April 2007

I share the outrage expressed in the British press over the treatment of our naval personnel accused by Iran of illegally entering their waters. It is a disgrace. We would never dream of treating captives like this - allowing them to smoke cigarettes, for example, even though it has been proven that smoking kills. And as for compelling poor servicewoman Faye Turney to wear a black headscarf, and then allowing the picture to be posted around the world - have the Iranians no concept of civilised behaviour? For God's sake, what's wrong with putting a bag over her head? That's what we do with the Muslims we capture: we put bags over their heads, so it's hard to breathe. Then it's perfectly acceptable to take photographs of them and circulate them to the press because the captives can't be recognised and humiliated in the way these unfortunate British service people are.

It is also unacceptable that these British captives should be made to talk on television and say things that they may regret later. If the Iranians put duct tape over their mouths, like we do to our captives, they wouldn't be able to talk at all. Of course they'd probably find it even harder to breathe - especially with a bag over their head - but at least they wouldn't be humiliated.

And what's all this about allowing the captives to write letters home saying they are all right? It's time the Iranians fell into line with the rest of the civilised world: they should allow their captives the privacy of solitary confinement. That's one of the many privileges the US grants to its captives in Guantánamo Bay.

The true mark of a civilised country is that it doesn't rush into charging people whom it has arbitrarily arrested in places it's just invaded. The inmates of Guantánamo, for example, have been enjoying all the privacy they want for almost five years, and the first inmate has only just been charged. What a contrast to the disgraceful Iranian rush to parade their captives before the cameras!

What's more, it is clear that the Iranians are not giving their British prisoners any decent physical exercise. The US military make sure that their Iraqi captives enjoy PT. This takes the form of exciting "stress positions", which the captives are expected to hold for hours on end so as to improve their stomach and calf muscles. A common exercise is where they are made to stand on the balls of their feet and then squat so that their thighs are parallel to the ground. This creates intense pain and, finally, muscle failure. It's all good healthy fun and has the bonus that the captives will confess to anything to get out of it.

And this brings me to my final point. It is clear from her TV appearance that servicewoman Turney has been put under pressure. The newspapers have persuaded behavioural psychologists to examine the footage and they all conclude that she is "unhappy and stressed".

What is so appalling is the underhand way in which the Iranians have got her "unhappy and stressed". She shows no signs of electrocution or burn marks and there are no signs of beating on her face. This is unacceptable. If captives are to be put under duress, such as by forcing them into compromising sexual positions, or having electric shocks to their genitals, they should be photographed, as they were in Abu Ghraib. The photographs should then be circulated around the civilised world so that everyone can see exactly what has been going on.

As Stephen Glover pointed out in the Daily Mail, perhaps it would not be right to bomb Iran in retaliation for the humiliation of our servicemen, but clearly the Iranian people must be made to suffer - whether by beefing up sanctions, as the Mail suggests, or simply by getting President Bush to hurry up and invade, as he intends to anyway, and bring democracy and western values to the country, as he has in Iraq.

Source: The MD, U.K. - News
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Postby [IFC]KGB » Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:49 pm

You wonder why people flame you?
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Postby Enigma » Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:50 pm

[IFC]KGB wrote:You wonder why people flame you?


nice rebuttal <_<
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Postby Jablo)v(e » Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:09 pm

Enigma wrote:
[IFC wrote:KGB,Apr 9 2007, 12:49 PM]You wonder why people flame you?


nice rebuttal <_<



I thought so. I fully expected to have a moment of deja vu. Thanks to KGB for making it simple. ----> not one of us agree. not one of us can find a bit of logic in it. stop posting shit like this when u know what we are gonna say to u. we've made it clear, and its getting old. trully. it is. o. and we hate you. :rolleyes: B)
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Postby jalapeno » Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:12 pm

i have the attention span of a moth, and therefore cannot read what eNIGma posted...can i have a summary?
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Postby Anguis » Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:14 pm

jalapeno wrote:i have the attention span of a moth, and therefore cannot read what eNIGma posted...can i have a summary?



summary: bullshit

go eat some pizza
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Postby CRaZy)-(ØR§]® » Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:50 pm

people that write one sided articles get you nothing but a big shovel of STFU anywhere you go except thier house..
you should have just posted the rosie MCdonalds video again..it would have had the same amount greasy streak marks as this.

for people that don't know who this is..it's the old monty pythons Terry Jones..
you know the expert on this shit :lol:

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Postby -=)V(artin=- » Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:09 pm

Hey enigma, i just sent you a letter of fresh dried snow from canada, if you put your nose real close and take a deep breath you can almost taste the great lakes
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Postby HoRnY » Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:11 pm

bahaha
<span style='color:crimson'><span style='font-size:9pt;line-height:100%'>ROLL TIDE</span></span>
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Postby Invid » Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:39 pm

Enigma wrote:By Terry Jones
The Guardian
Saturday March 31, 2007
Last updated: 03 April 2007

I share the outrage expressed in the British press over the treatment of our naval personnel accused by Iran of illegally entering their waters. It is a disgrace. We would never dream of treating captives like this - allowing them to smoke cigarettes, for example, even though it has been proven that smoking kills. And as for compelling poor servicewoman Faye Turney to wear a black headscarf, and then allowing the picture to be posted around the world - have the Iranians no concept of civilised behaviour? For God's sake, what's wrong with putting a bag over her head? That's what we do with the Muslims we capture: we put bags over their heads, so it's hard to breathe. Then it's perfectly acceptable to take photographs of them and circulate them to the press because the captives can't be recognised and humiliated in the way these unfortunate British service people are.

It is also unacceptable that these British captives should be made to talk on television and say things that they may regret later. If the Iranians put duct tape over their mouths, like we do to our captives, they wouldn't be able to talk at all. Of course they'd probably find it even harder to breathe - especially with a bag over their head - but at least they wouldn't be humiliated.

And what's all this about allowing the captives to write letters home saying they are all right? It's time the Iranians fell into line with the rest of the civilised world: they should allow their captives the privacy of solitary confinement. That's one of the many privileges the US grants to its captives in Guantánamo Bay.

The true mark of a civilised country is that it doesn't rush into charging people whom it has arbitrarily arrested in places it's just invaded. The inmates of Guantánamo, for example, have been enjoying all the privacy they want for almost five years, and the first inmate has only just been charged. What a contrast to the disgraceful Iranian rush to parade their captives before the cameras!

What's more, it is clear that the Iranians are not giving their British prisoners any decent physical exercise. The US military make sure that their Iraqi captives enjoy PT. This takes the form of exciting "stress positions", which the captives are expected to hold for hours on end so as to improve their stomach and calf muscles. A common exercise is where they are made to stand on the balls of their feet and then squat so that their thighs are parallel to the ground. This creates intense pain and, finally, muscle failure. It's all good healthy fun and has the bonus that the captives will confess to anything to get out of it.

And this brings me to my final point. It is clear from her TV appearance that servicewoman Turney has been put under pressure. The newspapers have persuaded behavioural psychologists to examine the footage and they all conclude that she is "unhappy and stressed".

What is so appalling is the underhand way in which the Iranians have got her "unhappy and stressed". She shows no signs of electrocution or burn marks and there are no signs of beating on her face. This is unacceptable. If captives are to be put under duress, such as by forcing them into compromising sexual positions, or having electric shocks to their genitals, they should be photographed, as they were in Abu Ghraib. The photographs should then be circulated around the civilised world so that everyone can see exactly what has been going on.

As Stephen Glover pointed out in the Daily Mail, perhaps it would not be right to bomb Iran in retaliation for the humiliation of our servicemen, but clearly the Iranian people must be made to suffer - whether by beefing up sanctions, as the Mail suggests, or simply by getting President Bush to hurry up and invade, as he intends to anyway, and bring democracy and western values to the country, as he has in Iraq.

Source: The MD, U.K. - News


Here is an article showing how inhuman iran can be.
Read the whole article or read the parts in bold...


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6538075.stm

The only woman among the 15-strong Royal Navy crew has also defended her decision to sell her story to ITV1's Trevor Macdonald and the Sun newspaper.

Some of the reported six-figure sum for the interview will go to navy families.

Relatives of soldiers killed in Iraq have criticised the decision allowing the crew to sell their stories.

Lord Heseltine, the former deputy prime minister and defence secretary, has called for an inquiry into the decision to allow the sale of stories.

And Lieutenant Felix Carman, who was among those held, has said he finds it "unsavoury" that his fellow captives are being paid to tell their story. But the Sun newspaper has defended its decision to pay Leading Seaman Turney for her story.

Critical letters

The paper's defence editor, Tom Newton-Dunn, who refused to reveal how much she was being paid, said: "She has a right to do this. We are a free country. Faye has been through the most extraordinary ordeal, which is clearly graphically illustrated."

In an interview broadcast on ITV1's Tonight with Trevor Macdonald, Leading Seaman Turney said she was told she would be charged with spying unless she wrote the letters shown on Iranian television.

In one letter, she criticises the Bush and Blair governments for intervening in Iraq.

"When they wanted me to write what was written about the British and American troops I felt like a traitor to my own country," she says.



Royal Marine Captain Chris Air and Lieutenant Felix Carman
Cpt Chris Air and Lt Felix Carman say they do not intend to profit
Lt Carman speaks

Stories sale criticism grows

In the programme, she defended her decision to sell her story and says a percentage of the money will help the crew and families of HMS Cornwall.

"I was offered a hell of a lot of money for my story. I've not taken the biggest offer, I've gone down...because I wanted to speak to yourself and the Sun because I knew my point would be put across.

"I want everyone out there to know my story from my side, see what I went through," she told the programme.

Asked what form her interrogation took, she said: "It took two forms: you had Mr Nice Guy who wanted to be your best mate; he was concerned at the fact that I hadn't been eating.

"And then you've got the guys who were like, 'Do you want to see your daughter again?' And that's the way they use that against you. And that was horrible."

She also described how at times during her two-week ordeal, she cried herself to sleep.

Coffin

In a separate interview with the Sun, Leading Seaman Turney said she feared her Iranian captors were measuring her for a coffin before killing her.

Her captors asked how she felt about dying for her government and never seeing her daughter again, she said.

Leading Seaman Turney, known as Topsy, said her lowest moment came when her captors isolated her from her colleagues and told her they had been sent home.

"All I could think of was how completely alone I was. They could do anything now and nobody would know," she told the Sun.

'Nightmare'

Meanwhile Arthur Batchelor, 20, the youngest of the British sailors to be held captive, told the Daily Mirror about his "nightmare" at the hands of his captors and how he "cried like a baby" in his cell.

He told the newspaper: "A guard kept flicking my neck with his index finger and thumb. I thought the worst, we've all seen the videos. I was frozen in terror and just stared into the darkness of my blindfold."

Captured crew arriving in the UK
The crew returned to the UK on Thursday after 13 days in captivity

Both of the officers among the captives have said they do not plan to profit from the story.

Royal Navy Lt Felix Carman said any fee was likely to go to charity.

"I am not interested in making money out of this," the 26-year-old from Swansea told the BBC.

"My main aim is to tell the story. There's some people who might be making money, but that's an individual's decision, that's very private."


I think it would have been better if maybe they handled it in a slightly different way
Admiral Sir Alan West

Media deals - for and against
Officers deny media cash aim

Captain Chris Air said that he did not plan to sell his story but insisted his fellow service personnel had the right to.

The MoD said its decision would ensure officials "had sight" of what might be said as well ensuring "proper media support" to the captured crew members.

Sally Veck, whose 19-year-old daughter Eleanor Dlugosz was killed in Iraq, criticised the MoD for letting the sailors and marines profit from their ordeal.

She told the Times: "If you are a member of the military, it is your duty to serve your country.

"You should do your duty and not expect to make money by selling stories."

'Backlash' fear

The sailors and Royal Marines were held after Iran accused them of entering its waters, a claim they denied.

The MoD has said experiences of the navy crew amounted to "exceptional circumstances" that allowed its usual ban on such payments to be lifted.

Maj Gen Patrick Cordingley, who led the Desert Rats in the first Gulf War, said he was "depressed" by the decision to sell stories as they had "not overplayed their experiences" in the press conference which took place when they returned to the UK.

He said the Ministry of Defence or the government seems to be "manipulating this whole particular process" for propaganda purposes.


You can't really believe anything that comes from a communist nation cause there's a pretty good guarantee that it will be censored. Didn't you see "V for Vendetta"?
Last edited by Invid on Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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